Skip to main content

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: shorthopper88 Date: Aug 18, 2010 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: So what DON'T you like about em'?

What BIG complaints do YOU have about the Grateful Dead?. I've been listening to them for long enough, and broadened my listening perspective with other groups over the years, and i've learned what I do and don't like about my favorite groups. SO... heres my complaint. Disclaimer : I love the Grateful Dead.

Sometimes I think the GD were too big of a band. If the GD's improvisation was like a conversation, sometimes their were too many conversations happening at once. And we all know sometimes their wasn't enough "conversation" between band members, all members just playing without listening to the others. I think both of these have the same effect. It sounds like noodleing as opposed to creative group improvisation. Maybe this is why I, and others enjoy the one drummer period, it was somewhat of a simpler sound, not such a whirl of drums behind the notes, AND they were still capable of producing the BIG "orgy of sound" that we all love about the GD. Maybe this is why I and others enjoy the garcia side projects, he was typically when not playing with the GD, playing with a much smaller band. And garcia was a good enough player that he didn't need many other players around him to make up for anything.

Another disclaimer just incase I get hell for this : When everything was "on" with the grateful dead's group improvisation, two drummers included, nothing can beat that sound.

SO. What complaints do you have about the Grateful Dead? Let this not be one of those "bashing" threads. But lets look at the Grateful Dead critically. Maybe things that you've realized, through listening to other musicians, that you don't like about the Grateful Dead.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

The fact that they recorded the abyssmal train wreck of Neil Sedaka-meets-steel-drums-and-breeds-with-Rupert Holmes yielding 'France'

Quite possibly the worst amalgam of sonic ick they ever did IMO.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 19, 2010 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

At least they had the good sense never to perform it live.

Hey to make the motion more complete
Yeah to make it more a treat
Club d'Jour is where to go
Come on down and see the show

When Hunter is off his game he is really off his game.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: TOOTMO Date: Aug 19, 2010 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

The heck you say.

Methinks, nothing so tasty as a Samba>Liberty>Samba samich----I only wished they had had the sense to spread some "France" on that Samba bun. Find me a version from '68 and I will never again tread past the Johnson white house.

TOTMOO

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 20, 2010 7:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: And..........

With a side order of "A Hundred, Million, Billion, Pounds of Steel"????

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: TOOTMO Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Not a major complaint but I hate that thing Phil had on his bass strap there for a while in the early 70's. I'm sure it was comfortable but it looked like some kind of Neanderthal maxi-pad.

Hate away,
TOOTMO

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

LOL - you have me rolling over here, neanderthal maxi pads!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: angular Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I love the Grateful Dead. ALL time periods. It was a ride. Some was better than others. You take it for what it is. It's artistic creativity. Some shows were high, some were low. That is the ebb and flow of life. What I don't like are deadheads that will wrap themselves in the smugness that they "get it" and that others don't. The self satisfying "I'm better than you" feeling that permiates the current scene.

From the person that just loves Truckin' and Touch of Grey, to the person that has collected/gone to hundreds of shows---We are all Heads.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I was... uh... joking, in case you're reacting in part to my above post. I'm a head, you're a head!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: angular Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Thanks, sorry for that. I know we are all heads to varying degrees. I only went to 20 shows from 86 on, but like to feel that I get it as much as the next person.

Thank you for your response. Sorry I was a hothead.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

No worries, and since you brought it up my first show wasn't until '89 - AND I only saw them 3 measly times! 'Fraid my credentials ain't all that good.... but of course it doesn't really matter.

Can you imagine someone saying "How can you claim you're a REAL Frank Sinatra fan? You never even saw him live!"

take care....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 18, 2010 11:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

See, then, I took you seriously, too :-) Well, not seriously, but I read it as a self-deprecatingly ironic yet pointedly frank comment. I mean, I think there really IS an appeal to the Dead being a minority taste, and I do remember being dismayed (conflictedly so) at the sudden growth of popularity. I don't think that's a snotty kind of smugness, though; more of an enjoyment of the smallness factor and what itbrings. Though really, even at the height of the megadead era, it always remained a really small niche taste. (Fortunately, IMO). Maybe the vocals were a protective barrier :-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: madmonkmcphee Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Could only imagine what they would have sounded like without Mickey after '75. To me, having two drummers just slops it up, although not all the time. Could've done without the drum segments that sound like random noise. Billy is a drummer, Mickey is a percussionist

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: dirtybuck Date: Aug 18, 2010 5:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Midi

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 18, 2010 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

the ball is teed up...

(disclaimer unnecessary - think we all love the GD)

1. Bobby banshee screams. One is more than enough. Take a scream lesson from Pig.
2. Endless repeats of last chorus or phrase. How many "any more"s do we need at the end of Bertha? Sunshine daydreams? Wait until that deal goes down? They should have figured out how to end more songs cleanly -take it to climax, but don't overdo it.
3. Too much synth
4. Brent may have been some folks' favorite key player, but I don't like that tinkling toy piano sound.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 18, 2010 5:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

>Bobby banshee screams.

Sometimes a bit misguided, but endearing rather than annoying. IMO (and I fawn over Weir, so take with a grain of salt).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

no shame in that, i fawn over weir too, especially when he let his bizarre personality come through on stage. also, he was incredibly good-looking, so that doesn't hurt.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Yeah, I agree he is not hard to look at :)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

not to hijack the thread into a bobby love-fest, but some of the pictures of him from the early days are unbelievable - thinking in particular of the closeup from the fillmore west '69 box. I think he was 21 at the time - JEEZ! Also, isn't it out of control that the guy was 21 when they made live dead?! what the hell!

This post was modified by midnightcarousel on 2010-08-19 14:06:46

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Yes it is, and why not have a Bobby love-fest? :) We have the opposite fairly often round here.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 18, 2010 5:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Possibly should elaborate on that - repeated screams of the same lyric over and over... and attempting over-the-top falsetto shouting, very bothersome, but the one-off HA scream well-placed is perfectly OK. His voice belongs in the lower register, like Weather Report Suite. And as someone noted above, not fond of the lazy talk-singing later on. Still a Bobby fan.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 18, 2010 6:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I like most of it, frankly. I think his screams are generally well placed - but I do admit, there are other times it is overdone to the point of comical. But I like that too :)

Honestly the occasions where they are a bit ridiculous are all part of their success. They were so awesome, it's a relief when they occasionally blow it in a spectacular way.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 18, 2010 9:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Yup. That's cuz the Dead aren't just a band for Deadheads, they're a sports team. Isn't catching the flubbed lyrics and ragging about how they "shoulda, coulda" done something differently a part of the game? Perfection isn't for Live Anything (sports, music, life). I don't "get" sports, but I think for people who do, that's part of it. The combination of brilliance and skill, live what'll-they-do-next action, and inevitable mistakes. All happening in real time and performed by brilliant but real and flawed people, not CGI characters.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 5:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

You've nailed it as usual.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: utopian Date: Aug 19, 2010 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Bobby's Screams, Slide guitar,
& voice- Before his other nut dropped.. circa 1975

**I may be paranoid but I think They were following me from town to town from 1980-1991.

***Snobbish, Pretentious, Picky, era-touting fans (a minority)

****VINCE*****

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 19, 2010 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

****Thin-skinned, disillusioned touch-heads convinced that mailed-in, sloppy shows from the 80's were great performances simply because they attended the shows and enjoyed themselves

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: high flow Date: Aug 19, 2010 5:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Cliff the Insult Comic Dog

"Great 80's shows......for me to poop on!!"

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 19, 2010 5:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I can't think of a more appropriate place to relieve myself, not that it's any of your business. Why do you feel so compelled to chime in everytime I defend myself? You a cop?

Besides, here are no great 80's shows...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: high flow Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Where is your sense of humor? Why would you think I am out to get you?

You find time to chime in with negative comments, but never any friendly banter. I just don't get it. I'm trying to get you to crack a smile or make a light-hearted retort and you tell me your self-defense is none of my business and call me a cop. I guess that's ok with me, but I hardly see how that makes for good forum chemistry.

Many of the relationships forged here @ LMA GD Forum have begun with an argument or misunderstood banter. Then, after both sides cool down and at least make an effort to find common ground, friendships happen.

By all means, bash away. But please try and keep a sense of humor. Keep it light if possible. It's a music forum and some people like different stuff. One man's swill is another man's Czechvar.






Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 18, 2010 2:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

1. The same first set cover "cowboy songs" were played too much - Big River, El Paso, etc. They should have learned a few others, even of the same genre, but these got old.

2. At a point it seemed they didn't practice together much anymore and were just going through the motions. Wish they would have taken a break for a bit in the mid 80's. I am going to disgust myself here by quoting Huey Lewis "The Heart or Rock and Roll is the Feeling." They lost that feeling more and more and should have just stepped back and recharged.

3. The vocals often could have been better. If they had spent 1/100 of the time working on vocals as they had on their instruments it would have helped.

As far as Bobby screams, Donna screams, Pigpen screams I usually find all this amusing more than irksome... Good for my laugh muscles and eye rolling muscles




Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: vapors Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Re paragraph 2 - please take no offense, but for the record this is the correct lyric:

They say the heart of rock and roll is still beating
And from what I've seen I believe 'em
Now the old boy may be barely breathing
But the heart of rock and roll, heart of rock and roll is still beating.

(Not to be contrary, but to me it kind of describes the boys later efforts)

This post was modified by vapors on 2010-08-18 22:53:12

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

no offense, was kind of shooting in the dark, I am much worse with Dead songs that I find I have been singing the wrong lyrics to for years (Hunter's Box of Rain book was kind of a shock to me, but then maybe the band wasn't singing what Hunter wrote either)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: vapors Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Right on – funny how you (anyone) can latch onto what you think are the words and then always hear it that way. And there are numerous examples where Jerry changed Hunter’s lyrics.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: smokinchains Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

There are things in every time period that I love and things that bug me as well. Here are a few:

- How Bob's voice cracks through 1974. It sounds like Greg in that Brady Bunch episode. Drives me crazy!
- Bob's guitar sound in the later period. It's horrible.
- Post 1970's I think they could have mixed things up a bit more and probably had more creativity as a result, especially in the second set. A Birdsong > Drums > Space > Birdsong would have been cool, for example.
- Not really into much post space segments. I hate non-Pig Good Lovin' and most of the other oldies they played. I'd much rather hear Casey Jones or something instead of Round and Round.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: esreveRDelay Date: Aug 19, 2010 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

The ending of Morning Dew and Music Never stopped
The middle of China-Rider and Mind Left Body Jam... he he he
No seriously the late songs such as Easy answers, Childhood end etc. Talk about out of space killers come on man.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 21, 2010 3:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Late to the dance as usual...

Well all I've really got to say is, "You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time." Grateful Dead was not a perfect entity. At times they were damn near perfect and at times perfectly damned. You have to take the good with the bad. And, since I feel the good far outweighed the bad it wold be hard to pinpoint things I really dislike. There are many "dislikes" listed already that I have no trouble agreeing with, but I tend to tune them out when I am listening. It seems the "dislikes" most always get washed away in a flood of "likes".

This post was modified by user unknown on 2010-08-21 22:27:05

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I like the Grateful Dead best when they played like their, and our, lives depended on it. Mostly this happened in their first decade. At their best the Grateful Dead commanded attention and wouldn't let your mind wander from what they were doing. But in the big, bloated and boring 80s when synthesized manipulation too often took the place of real creativity it was all to easy for the band to be relegated to sonic wallpaper for the party-goers.

Oh yeah, and I also don't much like songs where Bobby feels moved to go 'Haaahhhhhhh!!!!'


And Mydland. Don't get me started on Mydland...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: zappa1229 Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

80s - I really don't like the tinkle tinkle sound of Brent's electric piano throughout the 80s..I loved his late 70s and very early 80s playing but after that I think the sound was really cheesy despite his obvious talent. The inconsistancy of the 80s is terrible. For such talented musicians to play some of the terrible shows they did during that time is unbelievable.

Bobby's slide playing should also be outlawed. Lets face it, he is a great rhythm player but his slide is really lacking and it ruins really good songs like Althea sometimes.

The third, and I'd say final, major thing is I highly prefer 1 drummer. Billy from 1972 - 1974 held it down! I love the jazzy, more open sound that they had with one drummer. With two drummers if things got rolling a little off it was really obvious and there was too much happening. Then there is drums and space...a complete waste of time. I love spacey Dead and used to take LSD regularly and still hate drums/space everytime.

Obviously I love the Grateful Dead but in the years I have been listening...and with the many hundreds of shows those are my only real gripes.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

>his slide is really lacking and it ruins really good songs like Althea sometimes.

Can you give any examples of that? just wondering. (A good Althea and a ruined Althea, that is).


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 20, 2010 3:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

This is one I really don't mention to most people because I don't want to bum their trip but it is my biggest turnoff about the whole Dead scene. It is the dancing bear imagery. Bears were not meant to dance, they were meant to be wild and free. A cute little purple dancing bear picture has it's origins in the enslavement and torture and deaths of wild bears for human entertainment, plain and simple.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 20, 2010 3:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

It's a wise bear that scratches its own fleas.

[sorry, just being a smartass; I don't like the bears myself, but never thought of it with respect to russkie circus ventures of old, though I doubt they ever imagined an association with anything so bizarre as the DEAD! But, I guess I'm inclined toward literary license in these sorts of issues, just as in I allow for wabbits that can use guns, dogs that can dance {though they might actually being having fun I suppose} and so on and so forth.]

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 18, 2010 9:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Biggest complaint: The fact that Jerry became a junkie and died.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Everything after 1977...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I once thought exactly as you did, Cliff, and in some sense I still do. Still, they have some bright moments after '77. I've been digging around in 1980-82 and have found some shows that are really, truly amazing, they just don't occur nearly as frequently as great shows in, say, 1968 or 1973. Nor do ANY of the greatest shows from the early 80s reach the heights of the greatest shows from the pre-hiatus years. It's just not even a contest.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

surprising response!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 19, 2010 3:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Boy did I come late to a good party !
Since most of my peeves have been brought up .
I will state one .
The decline of their feel for "Rock & Roll, Blues, and Country. This mainly falls on their rhythmic sloggyness, and lack of groove . You can make 2 drummers work, but it takes WORK to do so . And even Jerry, seems to lose the feel for some of these songs ( GDTRFB ) somewhere past the 70's .
You play any later day version of NFA, Johnny B. Goode , or Mama Tried , to a musician, or a musical friend, ( who is not just a Dead hater ) and ask them what they think ! You might heard words like "sloppy", "flaccid, or limp dick", "confused", "lazy", "uninspired", "if it was my band, I would fire..." , etc.
And NEVER play their version of The Last Time to Rolling Stones fan !
You could say, "They just don't understand the Dead", but there are such things as musical standards, that even this great band can be judged by .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

You know, DD, I have groaned on about the two drummers, but because I thought it worked very well during 68-69, and then was part of what I saw for most of my time, 74-82, I never have come out one way or the other on it...but, I will say it always struck me that one drummer, like...hmmm...I dunno, Ginger Baker (har, but any top ten rock band drummer), could sound so much more compelling than our two boys. And certainly, Bill does really well for my one main yr with him, 71. Now some have pointed out to me that their style was to be more background, etc., but still, it just always struck me that it wasn't "twice as good!" as overly simplistic as that sounds...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 19, 2010 10:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I have no problem with the first 2 drummer period, or the first few years of Hart's return . It is somewhere there in the 80's that the problems with the more "roots" oriented type material, that I mention start to develop . And it is not just the drummers, it can be Garcai, or Phil, or Bob . It really sounds like they didn't notice , or were aware of what they sounded like, sometimes . Did they rehearse much, or listen to these tapes ? Since they were a democratic anarchy, no one is boss, no one can say, " Tighten it up" , "slow it down", "what are you doing" ?
Maybe to "fix" the problems, would killed something more special, in the band .
But I am only going off what they had been able to do before .
'Little Red Rooster", for example : I'm not a big fan of Weir's blues singing , but when they first brought into their rotation, it had kind of "smokey" groove to it . Later it felt like someone trying to walk through a vat of oatmeal .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Grateful Rat Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Kind of sad to see the number of responses to this question.Though I cant disagree with any of them really.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Longnstrange Date: Aug 18, 2010 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

This post has record breaking response potential. Ask a bunch of picky bastard Deadheads this question? This is going to be too good.
My answer is simple- the singing. There are great vocal moments, but there are so many sour vocals and flubbed lyrics that it isn't funny. And I'm not talking about Jerry sounding old, I actually like that. I mean Bobby forgetting the words all his life, Jerry, too. And some of those PigPen/Lesh/Weir/Garcia vocal meetings are borderline as far as what one can tolerate regarding dissonance. How about some of those Donna moments? How about Bobby turning into a yeller rather than a singer later on? Many challenges in this dept.
I'm sure that not liking the vocals is the most unimaginative answer one could give...oh well.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Strange - I'm in total agreement regarding their limitations as live vocalists - it's my single biggest disappointment. It's very un-deadhead of me, but I'm always kind of looking for that perfect version of a song. As soon as I think I've found it, hearing that pefect band tightness or perfect solo, seems that Bobby goes banshee to borrow unclejohn's label (think '77 Estimateds or Hell In a Bucket), or he or Jerry either flub the lyrics or are WAY out of tune at some point. Always leaves me thinking "I'll never get anyone new to like this band."

We all love the GD warts and all, but these are the buzz kills that keep potential newcomers at bay. On the other hand, the fact that fewer people love the GD makes me feel smug that I'm part of a select group that "get it". In my mind I get satisfaction knowing that the vast majority of people I run into are simpletons who can't appreciate the exquisite beauty of this band. (preceding sentences dedicated to imissJG) :-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 18, 2010 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Love the last paragraph. That's exactly what I was thinking. I've been playing a fair amount of music lately with people in the room who are completely unfamiliar with the band -- not even American, hence no preconceptions or stereotypes about the Dead -- and I do find that I notice off-key or just "off" vocals. I don't know if it's off-putting to them, but I tend to think it must be.

(BTW, I had this one going last night, and the eerie-spacy Dark Star did get an interesting reaction: "Is that film music?" I do think THAT was off-putting, but in that case, I don't really care, LOL ...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-01-02.early-late.sbd.cotsman.18120.sbeok.shnf )

Anyway, on the vocals. Paradoxically, part of what I love about the band is precisely that whole warts-and-all aspect. The rawness. The fact that the vocals, at their best, have personality rather than polish. And yes, the fact that a relatively small group of people "get it" ... I have to confess there's a kind of smugness to that.

I remember feeling conflicted and even a bit put out around '85 or so when, all of a sudden, it seemed there were tie-dyed Dead shirts sprouting everywhere. I lived in the local hippie 'hood, yet even there, the Dead had always been very much a minority taste ... and yeah, part of me liked it that way. So the sudden mushrooming felt like a bit of a violation. I think it was a bit pre-Touchhead, but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, in the General Dislike category, I generally echo what others have said, plus:

-- I can't STAND what they did in later years to the Other One with the Darth Vader-and-the-chipmunks effects;

-- Donna's sudden caterwauling appearances, particularly on PITBs (amazingly, no one has mentioned this yet);

-- as the years progressed, the set lists became too predictable, in terms of what they played when;

-- as I've said before, I don't like many covers of hit songs, particularly the Beatles, but they also overdid the Dylan (I'd specify pop rock covers, not folk or country or blues). I think this was a sign of their flagging inspiration.

I'm actually not bothered by the flubbed lyrics or Banshee Bob. Just part of the warts-and-all charm. But then, I don't mind a bit of humor mixed in with the SYF moments. Not that I listen to songs looking for the perfect HYAAAAAH, but still, it's got ... well, personality. And I do like that.

Quote of the day: "Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring." -- Marilyn Monroe (how's that for quoting a Famous Intellectual?)








Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 18, 2010 9:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

AltheaRose. I think much of space is like film music and I love it. Jerry and the rest of the band grew up on those cheesy 50's science fiction movies with the weird sound effects, I think that is a bigger influence than the strangeness brought via Phil and T.C. through the unique musical world they lived in.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 18, 2010 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

And that whole film-influenced idea of what "futuristic" should sound like may well have been an influence on Phil, too, though he might not admit it. He was always into sci fi; so was Jerry. Don't know about the others. And TC ... well, he got into Scientology (sheesh), and that's certainly cheesy sci fi, LOL!

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-08-19 04:43:49

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 18, 2010 10:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: JG doing film music - zabriskie point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6_8h64pxTU

not the original film footage but Jerry's playing that he did for the love scene from zabriskie point

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I agree with your take on the vocals - I personally don't mind because the music typically makes up for vocal histrionics, mumbles, or frog gargling tacks type of thing but in general I avoid putting on shows from 82-86 and 91-95 when I have friends hanging out.

And yes, after a particularly smoking Playin' in the Band winds down and Donna starts wailing I kind of look around to make sure everyone is okay. Sometimes I gotta change the music after one of those events just because I don't want people to be bracing themselves for one of these unexpected blood curtling screams because they hear Grateful Dead.

Incidentally, I just heard the perfect HYAAAAAH. It comes just after CC Rider bursts into double time, which I have never heard them do before.http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-12-05.nak.cm.300.109393.sbeok.flac16

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I'd say '83 is before Jerry turned into a frog. Still a bunch of good shows that you can bring out in public, IMO. But maybe I'm a bit immunized by exposure. I'd say '84 starts the tack gargling (though it's not like I've listened to every show in '83, so you may be right.) And ya know, there are awkward vocals hiding even in the best of years -- some of which, as you indicated, don't go HYAAAA but instead go EEEEYAAAIIIEEEEAAAIIIAAAH (Playin', playin' in the band ...)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 19, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I definitely enjoy a great deal of '83 shows... especially ones with Help > Slip > Frank. Actually, 83 was the year that really got me into the 80's sound because of this song revival. I then quietly slipped into 84 with a great deal of enjoyment (Marin shows in late March, early April, Hampton 4/14, Cal Expo, Indianapolis, Worcester and Augusta shows).

But as much as I enjoyed those years, my recent listening to 81 and 82 have been more rewarding with Jerry vocals being far better. More importantly, 80-82 seems to have a lot more of his fluent twangy country blues playing that he developed to some kind of peak in 70-72 before jazzing it up in the latter years. 83, to my ears, has Jerry resorting to a more noodley, shredding style without that focused melodic approach of earlier years.

Of course, like you said, there are plenty of diamonds and rubies in the rough and I love all the eras. When the boys are on, they are ON.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 1:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?


>Incidentally, I just heard the perfect HYAAAAAH. It comes just after CC Rider bursts into double time, which I have never heard them do before.http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-12-05.nak.cm.300.109393.sbeok.flac16


Wow, I just listened to that - how strange! I agree the first HYAAAAA is quite pristine :)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 18, 2010 5:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Flubbed lyrics are my only real complaint. Usually it doesn't bother me, often it's funny; occasionally, especially in the later era, it's like, you seriously can't remember the words to your own songs? How come I remember all the words and you can't? But it isn't a very serious complaint.

I usually like their actual vocals. I know there are places where I am thinking it is wonderful and others who are listening tell me it is horrible.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Deadheads.

Cue Groucho Marx quote....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: TOOTMO Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

"I had to avoid other Deadheads so that I could become a Deadhead."

---From some essay that I read yesterday on the net somewhere at sometime and yet managed to remember those few bytes out of the 16 trillion bytes that I read yesterday for work or pleasure.

TOOTMO

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

in a nutshell!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BataviaSparky Date: Aug 18, 2010 11:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

"Biggest complaint: The fact that Jerry became a junkie and died. " - Ouch, that actually saddens me beyond words, almost I wanna cry.

"What I don't like are deadheads that will wrap themselves in the smugness that they "get it" and that others don't. The self satisfying "I'm better than you" feeling that permiates the current scene." - As much as it was a joke, there's always some truth in sarcasm. I agree, but I thought this thread was what you don't like about the band, not what u don't like about the motley crew that attended their live concerts!

I'm going to take a left turn here - what I never really liked about the dea is that they DIDN'T TALK TO US ENOUGH WHILE ONSTAGE!
The 'We'll be back in just a little bit', or 'Watch me levitate Garcia" just didn't suffice. I came from attending hair metal bands' shows in the early 80's (Ozzy, VH, Iron Maiden, etc.) and was used to lots of stage banter ("How's everyone felling TWO-NITE!!!!"), ("We love you Chicago!!"), etc.
Of course, it's easy to talk too much, and it's a fine line, but an occasional "Hey everybody, how was the ride over from Hartford?" or whatever would have been nice, I think. As it was, it was a frickin' EVENT if someone in the band muttered one sentence during a show, talked about for the rest of the tour!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: angular Date: Aug 19, 2010 2:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I included deadheads because I always felt we were part of the band.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 19, 2010 12:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Fortunately, a video does exist of the one time they tried to change their image and prepared to really talk to the crowd like true rock-n-rollers. They even did their hair for the occasion. That's Jerry going "Hello CLEEEVE-LAND!":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C21yssFhCsk

(Maybe this'll cheer you up, Sparky :-) )





This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-08-19 07:19:26

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dead Surfer Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Space and Vince

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: lobster12 Date: Aug 21, 2010 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Too many first set Dylan covers.
Not knowing the reason(s) why a certain song was dropped from the rotation
The hour long set break, especially if the first set was 35-45 mins
Garcia's new guitars starting around 1993 -

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

i feel they should have let loose a liitle more while playing the other one instead of a fife min. tune they should have rocked it like 1968.a more mixed upsetlist would have been great.they should have dropped lil red rooster and replaced it with the eleven!!!lol!!i kinda wished they would have brought back some of the tunes they put to sleep and put a lil more tunes from their solo projects.but what i really didnt like was how drums and space started to become the longest part of the show in the latter days.an ex. would be lets say a 5 min playing in the band and a 20 min d/s. oh well it is what it is!!! i still love the music any which way!! great post!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snori Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

They didn't come to Europe often enough, and they didn't play enough shows in 1975.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 18, 2010 4:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Ha! 75...I saw ALL the shows that you could go to without an invitation! 3 of 4, with # 4 being the invitation only (Music Hall, Vault rec'd; at least our understanding at the time was it was not open to the public...maybe I am wrong?). So, I am all for wishing there had been more in that year.

I will jump on the band wagon and say "vocals" as well...we've been over it so many times of course, but I could relate to so many comments above, like the "how can I play this for a newbie? I'd better use the album studio effort instead!".

Of course, I also felt there was a general decline late 70s and on, but it was really the bigger venues, and vocals that were the two biggest changes to cause me to stop by 82.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

OK, I'll join the "vocals" group.

I will, however, branch off a bit and include lyrics. Many of the tunes are outstanding and very well written, but a few of them kind of leave me flat, if not run over and bleeding. Eyes, for example, is rather silly when you look at it closely. Nice message, but kind of delivered in a Winnie the Pooh style.
How about "Rolling in the rushes down by the riverside"?. Hmm, nothing more romantic than getting busy in a swamp. And the boinking cats in LLR, well that may be the worst line ever written (now that would also make for a good thread). There are many other examples that have caused me on many occaisions to tell the wife "Don't listen to the words, just focus on the playing". But then she heard Chinacat and I lost all credibility.

EDIT 3: The Worst Lyric Ever was a past thread actually. Rob, if you're out there, feel free to dig up the link. It was rather humorous as I recall.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2010-08-19 15:25:50

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Some, dare I say it, tend toward the melodramatic...just don't alert Trumpethead.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 19, 2010 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Oh yes, him. Gone but not forgotten, and certainly not missed.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

>boinking cats in LLR, well that may be the worst line ever written

TOTALLY agree.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snori Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what did the Grateful dead ever do for us ?

This thread is beginning to have a familiar ring to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 19, 2010 8:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

lyrics! - or as a few in my crowd used to say, "ah, the filler".

And no, I don't want to read another exegis on Ripple....

That said, many a line are so stuck in my brain that my first reaction to something may well be a Hunter line.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Happy to oblige. Is this the one you had in mind?

http://www.archive.org/post/309811/drugs-and-the-dead

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 19, 2010 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

I knew I could count on you, our resident archivist.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snori Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Well of course I'm envious, but as with my other 'complaint' it's all to do with the accident of birth that set me down over here.

(My only real gripe would be the adoption of songs like 'Why don't we do in in the road', 'Mr Fantasy', et al from English bands that don't suit their style.)

Incidentally WT say Happy Birthday to Ginger - 71 today (going on 91.)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: TOOTMO Date: Aug 19, 2010 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

"I saw ALL the shows that you could go to without an invitation! 3 of 4, with # 4 being the invitation only (Music Hall, Vault rec'd; at least our understanding at the time was it was not open to the public..."

Too bad you weren't the PM at that time, I'm sure you would have been on the list.

TOOTMO

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 19, 2010 7:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

Damn! I think I now understand why no one invites me to anything exciting these days! The only "call backs" I get nowadays are from my doctors...crap. And they make me wait; and pay...and for what? more bad news? I mean really.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Aug 18, 2010 3:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: So what DON'T you like about em'?

he's gone...(not the song)